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aestivalis) wrote2012-09-17 11:27 am
aestivalis) wrote2012-09-17 11:27 am
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I really should have written this a long time ago
This is a long overdue update about The Privilege of the Sword. It is going to suffer for my having taken too long about writing it up, sadly, and it is of course going to contain full spoilers for both this book as quite reasonably the one that came before it (Swordspoint). So be aware of that going in!
I put off reading this book for a long time. No matter how much I value stories, and reading, Swordspoint was the first book that ever made me physically cry and that wasn't something I wanted to risk compromising. Knowing that Privilege would be set some twenty years later (if I'm getting my numbers right) kept me nervous and wary. Was I really ready for this? Did I want to know what happened next? Was it going to break my heart? Of course it was going to break my heart, but was it going to do it right? Would I enjoy this as much as Swordspoint? Would it "ruin" Swordspoint? Oh, oh, oh.
But I finally read it, purchased it during Canada visiting and finished it all too quickly. And I loved it. My only concern now is trying to figure out where to begin with talking about it.
I'll be useless if I try to talk about the prose and such, so I'll just say that Kushner is vivid and fantastic and I admire everything she does. I admire how she crafts a setting, I admire how she writes her characters, I admire how she seems to let them follow their own needs and means. You have to infer so much, because hell if these people are going to be straightforward, but her writing is sharp and witty and emotive enough that it's all still there to be pulled and plucked and realised. I want to write like Ellen Kushner. She is wonderful.
I really loved this book. I wish I had talked about it as soon as I finished it, instead of putting it off forever, because I know I'm not going to do it a shred of justice, but let it be known that I really did love it. I think that, hmm, how to say.... while Swordspoint was ultimately the more powerful story for me by basis of character, Privilege was more powerful to me thematically. That Swordspoint is probably my 'favourite' if I have to pick one, but the story of Privilege is ultimately more important in a broader sense and overall more thoroughly constructed. I know people would argue the precise opposite and say that Privilege swans about for 460 pages and does very little, but I suppose I just can't help but wrap myself in the feminist aspects. That's what I mean about themes, and importance - this story does so much to address the treatment of women in this world, and it doesn't offer easy answers and smooth solutions but it offers all these perspectives and I could just eat that up forever.
Katherine is wonderful. She feels so real and whole to me, never compromising any part of herself even as she steps into a masculine role and makes it her own. She didn't choose to become a swordsman, but she comes to claim it so thoroughly and fights for the ideals that matter to her, and I love her for it. I think one of the most powerful moments in the book, for me, is when she's finally talking to Duke Tremontaine about who she's issued challenge to and why. Katherine's indignant rage that the world is willing to treat Artemisia as Ferris's property even after what he did - practically because of what he did - and Alec carefully digesting what she's saying and applying it to everything he'd intended for her, applying it to what happened with his sister; for a moment Katherine thinks he may cry. Then he asks what she wants for her birthday, haha, but then, this is Alec.
I think it's clear enough that Alec wanted Katherine to be able to defend herself from unsavoury expectations from society. I think it's clear enough that he's also drastically disconnected from a hateful reality and half the time he's not entirely sure what he's doing, but we can all surely agree that there was something altruistic in his intention for her. Alec loathes plenty of things, and society seems a chief enemy of his. Just, society. All of it, haha. Whether that means constant outrageous displays and ever-evolving scandal, or whether that means making himself duke and patron of Riverside, or whether that means equipping his niece to defy societal expectation, or whether that means protecting ill-treated street trash, Duke Tremontaine will involve himself. This is why that one scathing review drove me so batty. Yes, twenty years later Alec Campion is still a vindictive little shit, but if you can't discern his other concerns and motivations and intentions then you're just not reading close enough and need to go away. If you think he's nothing but a self-centred hedonist then you're not getting it.
I think that was another incredibly powerful moment for me; the reveal regarding Marcus. Not that his past hasn't been thoroughly foreshadowed by that point, but when he's explaining to Katherine his childhood on the streets, the things he would do for money, how he was eventually offered to Alec because 'the Mad Duke liked them older', and Katherine just has that moment of absolute despair because it's all her worst fears about that mysterious relationship, everything she feared might be true of her devilish uncle. And then Marcus just says that Tremontaine saved his life by giving him his own room with a door that locked. I just; YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE ALEC, BUT HE IS MORE THAN AN ACID TONGUE AND WHEREVER HE STICKS HIS DICK. >8| /eloquent
It makes me think of how much worse Alec gets immediately post-Highcombe, when it's orgies and Marcus making throwaway remarks about how, at this point, Alec can't even really tell the difference much between who he's sleeping with. He's such a mess. I don't know, this was never really a review anyway but now I'm just going 'THESE ARE THE ALEC MOMENTS I FOUND AFFECTING', I am useless. Highcombe in its entirety was everything I knew it would be, what can I even say about that? God, Alec. Richard. God damn it.
THAT ALL BEING SAID...
I mentioned already that I love Katherine and everything she stands for. I think the thing that sticks for me, with Katherine, is that she truly does defend Artemisia for Artemisia's sake, and for the purpose of correcting a grievous wrong. It's never about herself, it's never about playing a hero or seeking reward. She compares herself to the heroic swordsmen of the stories, but she is ultimately her own person and chooses her own path rather than trying to emulate others - there is no precedent for what she does in defending Artemesia, and those directly involved consider it a disastrous move for Artemesia's standing in society. It's not going to be an easy life for her or Katherine, assuming they make the sore mistake of trying to fit themselves into those societal norms. But why would they do that?
Katherine saves Artemesia twice, and I love her for it. She challenges Ferris and prevents that marriage, but she also sends Artemesia that letter right toward the very end, expressly encouraging her only to marry in a case of love, and if she doesn't find the right circumstance then she must never marry at all, for nothing good would come of otherwise. Artemesia is under pressure from all sides to marry Lucius Perry at this point, and (heartbreakingly) she finds herself warming to the idea of the basis that he still treats her kindly and he won't force her. She almost marries a man on the basis that 'I don't believe he will force me'. Maybe she and Lucius could have had a reasonable life together, but it would have been hollow and tragic and false, and seeing Artemesia and Katherine together at the very end of the story was just wonderful for me. Be happy, Artemesia, whatever path you choose.
Fact is, Artemesia is a silly and flighty girl. She is everything she was raised to be, and that left her really ill-equipped to combat the foulness that befell her. She absolutely would have been wed to Ferris without Katherine there to provide intervention on her behalf. It's so fascinating, and horrifying, to see the various ways the people around her justify the situation. Why does Artemesia insist her honour has been compromised? It's only compromised if word of what happens becomes public! How very silly she's being! This is her sibling, her parents, and it's just. completely horrible to read, but it's fantastically apt as well. This is the world that they live in, and they've no reason to see it any other way. It's never been any other way. Artemesia's mother slaps her and calls her a slut not because she had the ~audacity to be raped by a man (and that too is surely her own fault for attending him unchaperoned), but because she subsequently allows Katherine to publically take up arms in her defense and force the whole wedding arrangement apart. Artemesia ruins herself, as far as these people are concerned. Ahhh...
The book doesn't end with some overwhelming positive of societal reform and the promise that this'll never happen. How could it? But Katherine becomes the Duchess Tremontaine, and Artemesia is there at her side, and it's about the best thing that could be hoped for either of them I think. I imagine Tremontaine is going to remain a point of scandal, but then, what's so bad about that? Let's see if Katherine can apply the best of herself and the best of what she learned from her uncle - and, of course, her uncle's particular friend in Highcombe.
I want to mention the Ugly Girl. Just because she was excellent all the way through, and it was fun to see Alec had at least one true friend in the city. He had some true allies, certainly, in the likes of Marcus and probably Arthur Ghent - I'm sure a lot of Alec's direct staff have some debt of kindness owed to him, if you knew how to look. But Flavia was just his friend, his mathematical friend who didn't really put up with his nonsense, and they plainly genuinely liked each other and when Ferris ultimately drove her off toward the finale I was gosh darn outraged on her behalf. And Alec really was trying to console her and keep her, and ahhh. It was terribly terribly sad to me, I just liked her a lot. I choose to consider her ending as ultimately being another successful strike for feminism - damn but I hate mathematics and I would gladly attend your university lectures, Flavia. Cheers to the Ugly Girl :(
Ferris is still fun to read. I think Alec summed it up best when he remarked that it was just like Ferris to target vulnerable women - he was doing this way back in Swordspoint as well, nothing new there except perhaps a slightly more vicious edge to his methods (lent, no doubt, by desperation). But whatever else you say of the man, he really is fun to read. Wish he and Alec had more scenes even though that would have ruined the bristling tension created in the few scenes they do have, hahaha. (If I remember correctly, he is only ever once 'Alec Campion' in the narration, and it's as he delivers his final speech to Ferris before murdering him. As usual; oh, Alec. (WHICH I THINK WAS RICHARD'S REACTION AS WELL. YES, YES IT WAS.))
D-do not laugh at me, but I had this pet theory throughout the story that Marcus might actually be an illegitimate son of Richard's. DON'T LAUGH AT ME OKAY. I was just trying to figure out the mystery of his relation to Alec! And Marcus seemed to have this grudge against swordsmanship, and Alec was particularly defensive of him (more than once Katherine thinks the Duke seems more concerned of Marcus than he is of her), and I DON'T KNOW IT WAS JUST A THEORY OKAY. I eventually wrote it off, but then when Richard arrived at the end he was like "You're Marcus :o" and Alec was all "yes lol they grow stupid" and I was like :OOO? and I'M STILL NOT QUITE CERTAIN HAHAHA. It's one of those things where it's plainly really stupid unless it's true. I can't quite get off the fence and champion one side or the other, hahaha, wishy washy meee.
Anyway if it isn't terribly obvious by now, this update is getting more and more useless and I should end it. I absolutely should have written about this book closer to when I finished it, because I had some powerful reactions and some things I wanted to say. I wanted to talk about Katherine's rise and fall as the protagonist of her own story, and whether or not it counts against her that she spends the finale of her book safely locked at home (getting intimate with Marcus!) while it is Alec who ultimately claims the final actions (in my opinion, it doesn't!). But I just don't feel articulate enough right now, and I doubt it would be interesting to read anyway, and ahh. I wanted to talk about how pleased I was that the broad '(almost) everyone is bisexual' notion that applied in Swordspoint is much more openly applied to female characters this time around as well. I want Katherine to date every boy and every girl and be happy forever, that is not too much to ask.
But yes. That is quite enough of my ruining a beautiful book with my ramblings. I simultaneously feels like I mentioned Alec and Richard too much and also not nearly enough. Especially Richard, largely notably absent from this novel, and of course that makes sense and furthers the characterisation of others but goodness I missed him and I damn well know a certain someone reading this must have missed him more. Ahhh, this update is the worst fghdjs hahaha.
So yeah, the moral really is; update sooner >:|
I put off reading this book for a long time. No matter how much I value stories, and reading, Swordspoint was the first book that ever made me physically cry and that wasn't something I wanted to risk compromising. Knowing that Privilege would be set some twenty years later (if I'm getting my numbers right) kept me nervous and wary. Was I really ready for this? Did I want to know what happened next? Was it going to break my heart? Of course it was going to break my heart, but was it going to do it right? Would I enjoy this as much as Swordspoint? Would it "ruin" Swordspoint? Oh, oh, oh.
But I finally read it, purchased it during Canada visiting and finished it all too quickly. And I loved it. My only concern now is trying to figure out where to begin with talking about it.
I'll be useless if I try to talk about the prose and such, so I'll just say that Kushner is vivid and fantastic and I admire everything she does. I admire how she crafts a setting, I admire how she writes her characters, I admire how she seems to let them follow their own needs and means. You have to infer so much, because hell if these people are going to be straightforward, but her writing is sharp and witty and emotive enough that it's all still there to be pulled and plucked and realised. I want to write like Ellen Kushner. She is wonderful.
I really loved this book. I wish I had talked about it as soon as I finished it, instead of putting it off forever, because I know I'm not going to do it a shred of justice, but let it be known that I really did love it. I think that, hmm, how to say.... while Swordspoint was ultimately the more powerful story for me by basis of character, Privilege was more powerful to me thematically. That Swordspoint is probably my 'favourite' if I have to pick one, but the story of Privilege is ultimately more important in a broader sense and overall more thoroughly constructed. I know people would argue the precise opposite and say that Privilege swans about for 460 pages and does very little, but I suppose I just can't help but wrap myself in the feminist aspects. That's what I mean about themes, and importance - this story does so much to address the treatment of women in this world, and it doesn't offer easy answers and smooth solutions but it offers all these perspectives and I could just eat that up forever.
Katherine is wonderful. She feels so real and whole to me, never compromising any part of herself even as she steps into a masculine role and makes it her own. She didn't choose to become a swordsman, but she comes to claim it so thoroughly and fights for the ideals that matter to her, and I love her for it. I think one of the most powerful moments in the book, for me, is when she's finally talking to Duke Tremontaine about who she's issued challenge to and why. Katherine's indignant rage that the world is willing to treat Artemisia as Ferris's property even after what he did - practically because of what he did - and Alec carefully digesting what she's saying and applying it to everything he'd intended for her, applying it to what happened with his sister; for a moment Katherine thinks he may cry. Then he asks what she wants for her birthday, haha, but then, this is Alec.
I think it's clear enough that Alec wanted Katherine to be able to defend herself from unsavoury expectations from society. I think it's clear enough that he's also drastically disconnected from a hateful reality and half the time he's not entirely sure what he's doing, but we can all surely agree that there was something altruistic in his intention for her. Alec loathes plenty of things, and society seems a chief enemy of his. Just, society. All of it, haha. Whether that means constant outrageous displays and ever-evolving scandal, or whether that means making himself duke and patron of Riverside, or whether that means equipping his niece to defy societal expectation, or whether that means protecting ill-treated street trash, Duke Tremontaine will involve himself. This is why that one scathing review drove me so batty. Yes, twenty years later Alec Campion is still a vindictive little shit, but if you can't discern his other concerns and motivations and intentions then you're just not reading close enough and need to go away. If you think he's nothing but a self-centred hedonist then you're not getting it.
I think that was another incredibly powerful moment for me; the reveal regarding Marcus. Not that his past hasn't been thoroughly foreshadowed by that point, but when he's explaining to Katherine his childhood on the streets, the things he would do for money, how he was eventually offered to Alec because 'the Mad Duke liked them older', and Katherine just has that moment of absolute despair because it's all her worst fears about that mysterious relationship, everything she feared might be true of her devilish uncle. And then Marcus just says that Tremontaine saved his life by giving him his own room with a door that locked. I just; YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE ALEC, BUT HE IS MORE THAN AN ACID TONGUE AND WHEREVER HE STICKS HIS DICK. >8| /eloquent
It makes me think of how much worse Alec gets immediately post-Highcombe, when it's orgies and Marcus making throwaway remarks about how, at this point, Alec can't even really tell the difference much between who he's sleeping with. He's such a mess. I don't know, this was never really a review anyway but now I'm just going 'THESE ARE THE ALEC MOMENTS I FOUND AFFECTING', I am useless. Highcombe in its entirety was everything I knew it would be, what can I even say about that? God, Alec. Richard. God damn it.
THAT ALL BEING SAID...
"Do you even remember when you were her age?" The actress stroked his back with her foot. "You must have been a perfect horror. All arms and legs and rage and nameless lusts."THIS MENTAL IMAGE JUST STRUCK ME, OKAY, hahaha, I can quote whatever silly bits I like, you shush. Whenever I think of parts of the book I particularly liked I always think of startled Alec rearing up upon being called out, and you can bet he's still all arms and legs even if he has aged into it, damn long-limbed thing. OH ALEC, I'm not talking about you any more, go away, I want to talk about the fantastic ladies in this story.
"That," He purred, "is precisely my point. I'm not having her go through what I went through, or what my sister did, either."
"You're a funny man." Her foot moved down his body. "You don't get this close to many women, but it would never occur to you to ask me what a young girl wants."
"I don't care what she wants. I know what's good for her."
"Heavens." She lay back, arms stretched over her head in the enormous bed. "Is that your mother's or your father's voice I'm hearing?" He reared up, startled. "Are you going to throw me out of bed?" She asked languidly.
"Possibly."
I mentioned already that I love Katherine and everything she stands for. I think the thing that sticks for me, with Katherine, is that she truly does defend Artemisia for Artemisia's sake, and for the purpose of correcting a grievous wrong. It's never about herself, it's never about playing a hero or seeking reward. She compares herself to the heroic swordsmen of the stories, but she is ultimately her own person and chooses her own path rather than trying to emulate others - there is no precedent for what she does in defending Artemesia, and those directly involved consider it a disastrous move for Artemesia's standing in society. It's not going to be an easy life for her or Katherine, assuming they make the sore mistake of trying to fit themselves into those societal norms. But why would they do that?
Katherine saves Artemesia twice, and I love her for it. She challenges Ferris and prevents that marriage, but she also sends Artemesia that letter right toward the very end, expressly encouraging her only to marry in a case of love, and if she doesn't find the right circumstance then she must never marry at all, for nothing good would come of otherwise. Artemesia is under pressure from all sides to marry Lucius Perry at this point, and (heartbreakingly) she finds herself warming to the idea of the basis that he still treats her kindly and he won't force her. She almost marries a man on the basis that 'I don't believe he will force me'. Maybe she and Lucius could have had a reasonable life together, but it would have been hollow and tragic and false, and seeing Artemesia and Katherine together at the very end of the story was just wonderful for me. Be happy, Artemesia, whatever path you choose.
Fact is, Artemesia is a silly and flighty girl. She is everything she was raised to be, and that left her really ill-equipped to combat the foulness that befell her. She absolutely would have been wed to Ferris without Katherine there to provide intervention on her behalf. It's so fascinating, and horrifying, to see the various ways the people around her justify the situation. Why does Artemesia insist her honour has been compromised? It's only compromised if word of what happens becomes public! How very silly she's being! This is her sibling, her parents, and it's just. completely horrible to read, but it's fantastically apt as well. This is the world that they live in, and they've no reason to see it any other way. It's never been any other way. Artemesia's mother slaps her and calls her a slut not because she had the ~audacity to be raped by a man (and that too is surely her own fault for attending him unchaperoned), but because she subsequently allows Katherine to publically take up arms in her defense and force the whole wedding arrangement apart. Artemesia ruins herself, as far as these people are concerned. Ahhh...
The book doesn't end with some overwhelming positive of societal reform and the promise that this'll never happen. How could it? But Katherine becomes the Duchess Tremontaine, and Artemesia is there at her side, and it's about the best thing that could be hoped for either of them I think. I imagine Tremontaine is going to remain a point of scandal, but then, what's so bad about that? Let's see if Katherine can apply the best of herself and the best of what she learned from her uncle - and, of course, her uncle's particular friend in Highcombe.
I want to mention the Ugly Girl. Just because she was excellent all the way through, and it was fun to see Alec had at least one true friend in the city. He had some true allies, certainly, in the likes of Marcus and probably Arthur Ghent - I'm sure a lot of Alec's direct staff have some debt of kindness owed to him, if you knew how to look. But Flavia was just his friend, his mathematical friend who didn't really put up with his nonsense, and they plainly genuinely liked each other and when Ferris ultimately drove her off toward the finale I was gosh darn outraged on her behalf. And Alec really was trying to console her and keep her, and ahhh. It was terribly terribly sad to me, I just liked her a lot. I choose to consider her ending as ultimately being another successful strike for feminism - damn but I hate mathematics and I would gladly attend your university lectures, Flavia. Cheers to the Ugly Girl :(
Ferris is still fun to read. I think Alec summed it up best when he remarked that it was just like Ferris to target vulnerable women - he was doing this way back in Swordspoint as well, nothing new there except perhaps a slightly more vicious edge to his methods (lent, no doubt, by desperation). But whatever else you say of the man, he really is fun to read. Wish he and Alec had more scenes even though that would have ruined the bristling tension created in the few scenes they do have, hahaha. (If I remember correctly, he is only ever once 'Alec Campion' in the narration, and it's as he delivers his final speech to Ferris before murdering him. As usual; oh, Alec. (WHICH I THINK WAS RICHARD'S REACTION AS WELL. YES, YES IT WAS.))
D-do not laugh at me, but I had this pet theory throughout the story that Marcus might actually be an illegitimate son of Richard's. DON'T LAUGH AT ME OKAY. I was just trying to figure out the mystery of his relation to Alec! And Marcus seemed to have this grudge against swordsmanship, and Alec was particularly defensive of him (more than once Katherine thinks the Duke seems more concerned of Marcus than he is of her), and I DON'T KNOW IT WAS JUST A THEORY OKAY. I eventually wrote it off, but then when Richard arrived at the end he was like "You're Marcus :o" and Alec was all "yes lol they grow stupid" and I was like :OOO? and I'M STILL NOT QUITE CERTAIN HAHAHA. It's one of those things where it's plainly really stupid unless it's true. I can't quite get off the fence and champion one side or the other, hahaha, wishy washy meee.
Anyway if it isn't terribly obvious by now, this update is getting more and more useless and I should end it. I absolutely should have written about this book closer to when I finished it, because I had some powerful reactions and some things I wanted to say. I wanted to talk about Katherine's rise and fall as the protagonist of her own story, and whether or not it counts against her that she spends the finale of her book safely locked at home (getting intimate with Marcus!) while it is Alec who ultimately claims the final actions (in my opinion, it doesn't!). But I just don't feel articulate enough right now, and I doubt it would be interesting to read anyway, and ahh. I wanted to talk about how pleased I was that the broad '(almost) everyone is bisexual' notion that applied in Swordspoint is much more openly applied to female characters this time around as well. I want Katherine to date every boy and every girl and be happy forever, that is not too much to ask.
But yes. That is quite enough of my ruining a beautiful book with my ramblings. I simultaneously feels like I mentioned Alec and Richard too much and also not nearly enough. Especially Richard, largely notably absent from this novel, and of course that makes sense and furthers the characterisation of others but goodness I missed him and I damn well know a certain someone reading this must have missed him more. Ahhh, this update is the worst fghdjs hahaha.
So yeah, the moral really is; update sooner >:|
no subject
I am so glad you loved the book so much, though! I was worried for you reading it, too, didn't want it to, ahh... I don't want to say "fail to meet your expectations" but somehow damper your enjoyment of. The whole thing. That is to say I didn't want you to have my Kings experience with Privilege. gdit Kings has traumatised me I can't even.
Mumble mumble I don't even remember Riverside things anymore, sigh, I am. Terrible. But this is totally relevent here, and absolutely the part that sticks out to me most. That this young woman with such a small window of experience with them could. Get it so right. AND I KNOW. I need to bear in mind that a writer wrote Katherine's perspective and so could've cheated and given her just what we wanted but gah. GAHHHHHHHH RICHARD ALWAYS
/worst answer
also this will come as no surprise but I have discovered that it is impossible to write Xian after looking at gifs of f/f porn. yeah, totally shocking. I hope you are well this morningggâ„